A well-informed reader of this blog commented that all city codes are available (by a third-party firm) online at this site here I suppose I should have known this, but I have been relying on the old fasioned method…big hefty binders at my council desk.
Anyway, this link is great, and I will add it to my main menu.
I have performed a serch on “helicopters,” “helicopter,” and “heliport” and only got one hit: in the definition section under aircraft.
Other than that, the code appears to not speak about zoning for helicopters.
If anyone knows differently, I would love to get your input.
Thanks!
Helicopters
Most people will say I really don’t care what he does as long as he doesn’t fly over my house. If you can’t find any rules then you should start making some up. Instead of relying on what’s written, think of it this way ” the benifit of many certainly outweigh the benifit of one”. Is this something he really needs to do or is it just something he can do because nothing says he can’t?
Renton needs a helicopter (and seaplane?) code for their residential zones – other cities have them, and we should also (regardless of how the Conner situation shakes out). You don’t have to be a pilot to put one in your yard (you can buy a pilot), so this will not be the last time we deal with this issue. I’m not convinced the helicopter issue only applies to waterfront homes. Issaquah’s code is a good place to start – do not allow flights in or over “R” zones.
Behind the Curve
We keep talking about being “AHEAD OF THE CURVE” but it is apparent that we are behind in a great number of areas. Renton’s geographic location is just now comming into great meaning with transportation being such an important issue. Where else are you close to I-5, I-405, East side, Seattle and SeaTac airport. Heck, you can even take a senic drive up the lake to Seattle if I-5 is juged up.
We need to catch up with the times.
Another really good publisher of municipal information is the Municipal Research and Services Center of Washington (MRSC): http://www.mrsc.org/ . They do online code publishing for a multitude of cities, and also have some really good online information repositories. They also have some good publications on municipal government in Washington… CW
Dan’s Black Helicopters . . .
Those black helicopters Dan Clawson keeps seeing are probably a zoning violation too. Perhaps he’ll file a(nother) lawsuit against the City.
helicopters
Any ideas out there as to how we can get the city to address this problem NOW!!!!!.At the moment it seems the planning department is willing to sacrifice the safety and serenity of an entire neighbourhood to satisfy the one man’s vanity!!!!
One of the interesting factors on the current Conner situation, is the notice given (or not) by the City to the surrounding neighborhood that a heliport permit is being considered in Kennydale. Apparently there were some fliers posted on the telephone poles near his house, but they were mysteriously removed by “somebody” the instant the appeal period ended (if not sooner?). How widespread were they posted, by whom, and for how long? Were any notices mailed out to the Kennydale neighborhood? I live just a few blocks away – well within his helicopter’s impact area – and never got a mailer or saw a posted flier (and so lost my opportunity to comment). Notice provisions to the neighborhood will be a very important part of any new City code.
Helicopter
If notices are stapled to telephone poles, how often do people actually get to see or read them? Seriously, how often do people go out walking and read these things? More often than not, people are driving and they certainly can’t read notes stapled to telephone poles. Our city does a poor job of notifying and communicating with the citizens on issues like this where public input is needed. Why wasn’t there a mailing done to the surrounding neighborhoods on this to promote public comment?
The City should send out a mailer to all residents in Lower Kennydale about his permit application, and the public hearing scheduled for January 15.
Helicopter & Community Notice
Randy – Will the City send out a notice to those citizens living in the greater Kennydale area prior to 1/15 so they know to give input and show up at this meeting?
If Renton is looking for model ordinances, there are plenty of them online in other cities. Just put helicopter ordinance or heliport ordinance into Google, and lots of them come up.
helicopters
The comments here would indicate that helicopter operations from my residence are a “problem” that needs to be dealt with. Seaplane and helicopter approaches are all over the Lake, both Redmond and Hunts Point expressly allow private seaplanes and helicopters and they have only a few such uses and have caused no problems that i have been able to identify. They have much more shoreline than Renton. I have always been very considerate of neighbors and never had a single complaint in the 14 years i had a helicopter based at my residence on Lake Sammamish. I would like to talk to anyone who is concerned and have followed up with everyone i am aware of who has voiced concerns to the city or any other venue that i am aware of. I would have posted this sooner but just found the site and the comments. My direct phone is 425 646 4433.
Re: helicopters
The big problem with helicopters is that while you can be considerate of your immediate neighbors (give the free rides now and then and they’ll love it) – is that the masses of people that get woken at 6am are not your immediate neighbors.
Unfortunatly, I live in a house build at the turn of the century and any helicopter sounds like a buzz saw even if it 1000′ above the house.
Add a bit of loiteering at 500′ to inspect your latest development and you’ll really piss me off.
Re: helicopters
Thanks you for being open to hearing concerns. Suspect the problem is
more envy and resentment. The only helicopter noise I find bothersome at times is directly above 405. . .Suspect TV/Radio Trafffic copters that hover for the gridlock pictures from crest of Kennydale Hill.
Re: helicopters
Not for me!
I don’t resent the seaplanes at all – love them really. They’re fun to watch and they’re noise is gone in moments.
Helicopters beat the air into submission – Good for search and rescue, police and the military. Not good for a sleeping.
Re: helicopters
According to the cities records (which are a matter of public record that anyone can request copies of) the anonymous complaint about my helicopter operations was filed on Friday June 15. The following day a neighbor informed me that the complainant stated she would put a stop to me flying from my property because it was dangerous. I contacted the complainant the following Monday to determine what the issues were in hopes of resolving them. The complainant told me I had awakened her at 7:30 am on a Sunday morning departing my residence. At best this is a case of mistaken identity, as I had not flown on any Sunday. The earliest my helicopter had ever operated on any day from my property was on a Saturday, when I landed at approximately 10:00 am. To this day i have not operated earlier than 9:00am on any day. My passengers and neighbors would be happy to verify that.
Re: helicopters
Charlie…. you going to get a lot of people, like me, who are just plane (pun intended) tired of any helicopter. It seems like you’re reasonable and considerate – so it’s kinda sad that we’re picking on you and not some of the real idiots that loiter around here for a long time. The trouble is… is that we do have a say on your heliport, so you’re going to get a lot of flack that may not directed at you.
I wish the Renton airport could manage the airspace around here better and get the traffic copters to take their pictures and then leave.
Given that you’re reasonable – what limit do you think should be on residential helicopters.
Thankfully, you’re not Paul Allen – that guy is an ass with his copter.
Re: helicopters
Why doesn’t anyone give their name? If you don’t want to join livejournal just sign at the end. I am thinking it is a vocal, very small, minority complaining, 2 – 3 people, who with the exception of one Mt View resident, have never seen or heard our helicopter. Do you live in Kennydale? Renton? Anne Simpson annesimpson@comcast.net
Re: helicopters
Paul Allen may be an ass——e but he has to tow his barge out to the 300 foot limit from the shore to land or takeoff in his helicopter!!!!! Sea planes have the same rules but that has never been addressed by the City of Renton and I have written to them about it.Joanie Rosling
Re: helicopters
Instead of Conner putting the responsibility on neighbors to contact him, why doesn’t he contact them?
I’m thinking every property owner and resident within 2 miles of his residence ought to be the “stakeholders.”
I suggest these “stakeholders” be asked whether they would approve a helicopter landing in a residential area near their property. If the majority didn’t mind, then I’d go along. But I really don’t want helicopters landing in a residential neighborhood.
Seaplanes take off and land out in the water, not in a residential neighborhood per se. It is not appropriate to use them as justification for helicopters landing and taking off near our homes, especially when an airport exists about a mile away from Conner’s Kennydale residence.
And at the hearing examiner’s on Feb 19, do citizens really get a chance to speak? or is this a motion the city goes through to make it appear fair?
We’ve got a new mayor now, one we hope does not appear partisan to people with money.
Inez Petersen
property owner
3306 Lk WA Blvd N
Kennydale
Re: helicopters
Ms. Petersen, I have spoken with everyone who can see or hear my taking off or landing, I would be happy to talk to you, please send me your phone number or call me at 425 646 4433.
Thank You, Charlie
Thank you!
Dear Charlie and Anne:
We are truly grateful for philanthropist like you who use your assets to support homeless families in our community. Two years ago, you graciously donated a ride in your helicopter to our fundraising auction. Although Vision House is a small agency, your contribution still brought in $600! To us, that is a significant amount of money raised and certainly paid for quite a few diapers for our kids! Good luck with your challenge and please know you are appreciated.
Susan Camerer, Executive Director
Re: Thank you!
OH PLU-EASE!!!!!!!
Re: Thank you!
Friend,
Obviously my comments were to show support for Charlie and Anne. I can only speak from my experience, but I have been on Charlie’s property when the helicopter was operating and it really wasn’t that offensive. (And, no, I am not deaf.) So I don’t see many of the complaints as valid. I encourage you to come for a tour of Vision House sometime and see the shelter and child care center Charlie built at his own expense for homeless families in our community and show a little grace and tolerance. Better yet, get in your car late tonight and drive to the Renton Wal-Mart parking lot and ask yourself how many kids are sleeping in the vans, campers and cars parked there over night. Then go take a look under the Renton library and count the homeless sleeping there too. Maybe then you will lighten up a bit and realize Renton has more pressing and significant issues to deal with than a few flights going in and out of Lake Washington. Come by for a tour. I will buy you a latte! Susan
Conner Heliport/ LUA07-097, TP
Our family has lived in Renton for over 100 years. We care deeply about the city and about the environment. I fully support this application granting Mr. Conner the use of his residence as a private helicopter landing and takeoff area. I know Mr. Conner is very considerate of his neighbors and the other residents all along the southeast side of the lake. His environmental footprint is less a distraction than that most boats, personal watercraft, and float planes. Mr. Conner is an experience airman. Safety and the environment are his top priorities. I strongly encourage the City of Renton to approve this application. Feel free to contact me as necessary.
Respectfully,
Steven R. Aliment
steven.r.aliment@boeing.com
Conner’s Heliport
I am a neighbor of the Conner’s on Mountain View. I have lived here nearly 30 years and value the tranquility of our lovely neighborhood. I have never heard Charlie’s helicopter take off or land. I work from home and would hear it if it was a problem. I think it is very sad that nearly all of these postings are anonymous. Why not come out of hiding a talk to Charlie. He is a good listener and I noticed he posted his phone number with an open invitation.
I am not a pilot and do not wish to fly in Charlie’s helicopter. I simply feel it is sad when one person can start a panic and make people think Kennydale will become a haven for helicopters or that Charlie is causing disruption.
During the summer months were are plagued with constant jet boat and jet ski noise on Mountain View. I guess I could move into the woods, but I enjoy living here and realize that is part of lake living.
I am not anonymous. If I am off base would one of you call or write to me.
Marlene Winter
2731 Mountain View North, Renton
425 2558906
marlene@marlenewinter.com
Re: Conner’s Heliport
If i can hear his helicopter half a mile away how come you can’t hear it?? Perhaps you are deaf and that will be a great advantage in this matter
Charlie Conner’s Heliport
I live in Kennydale about fourteen houses north of Charlie Conner on Mountain View Ave N. I am relatively new to Mt. View Ave, but I have lived in the communities around the south end of Lake Washinton for the last twelve years. I am writing to express my support for Mr. Conner’s right to operate his helicopter from his residence on the lake.
The Renton Airport has been in existence (since 1922) and busy for longer than most people involved in this discussion, and it is inarguably a vital part of our local economy. Mr. Conner’s home is well within the RNT class D airspace (think Renton Airport Operations Area), which extends up the lake almost to I-90. It is a well established fact that airports and most aircraft are noisy, with helicopters being amongst the noisiest due to their aerodynamics and their purpose built tendancy to fly closer to ground level than fixed wing aircraft. I love all things aviation, part of why I pay high taxes to live on the water near the airport and seaplane base, but I understand that the noise of the airport environment is annoying to some who have chosen to live, or been born into living in locations where aircraft can be heard. The problem with singling out Mr. Conner’s heliport as a way to get rid of airport noise is that his operation is not significant in the big picture. He averages far less than one operation per day, while the overall traffic at the Renton Airport is hundreds of operations per day. If there were a way to have a magical “average noise per year meter” it would not be able to detect whether he had been operating or not. The only people who can say with certainty if he has even operated on a given day are those within a few houses of him and those who can recognize his machine from a distance. A lot of helicopters fly overhead noisily each day for media work, training, medivac, etc., but rarely is it Charlie, he just does not operate that often. The overall issue of airport noise is a separate issue from Charlie Conner’s heliport, so if you are one of those individuals who is driven to grouchiness by aircraft noise, please do not not be fooled into thinking that creating an ordinance to stop Mr. Conner from exercising his right to fly to and from his home is going to solve the noise “problem.”
As far as safety is concerned, there is really no ammunition against his operation. Mr. Conner’s heliport falls within the FAA guidlines for heliports, even though it is not required to. Having commercial helicopter certification myself, and having visited his heliport, I can state that it is a very comfortable and safe approach and departure to and from his facility. There are no major obstacles, there is no need to overfly anyone’s house, and no need for any “tricky” or special manuevering. Charlie Conner is a well qualified pilot with years of experience in his ship, and a great sense of awareness of the traffic flow around the airport. His operations at his property are in full view of the tower, with two way radio communications with the tower. The FAA asks that helicopters avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic and I have personally witnessed Mr. Conner doing a great job of that with his approach and departure planning.
I can be reached at 206 412-4892, or n35136@gmail.com.
Sincerely, Trey Johnson
Re: Charlie Conner’s Heliport
Trey Johnson has assessed the situation in Renton really well. I was a close neighbor of Mr. Conner’s for the many years that he owned and operated his helicopter in Issaquah. Charlie’s statements are absolutely true. In my experienced opinion, his new neighbors really don’t have anything to worry about if he is allowed to have his heliport. I am also happy to communicate with anyone who would like to speak with me personally.
David Primrose Powhead@comcast.net
heliport
the renton City Council are trying to push this through without proper notification to Kennydale residents. I received notifiction of the Jan 23rd meeting on Friday 18th Jan 2008 by mail from Erika Conkling’s office because I am a person of record in this matter.This letter states that any written comments on environmental concerns should be submitted by Jan 30th.It appears that the City is proposing to apply a DNS to this zoning code change. This means that they are ignoring the many environmental issues of the Master Lakeshore Management Program. Specifically Salmon Habitat, Heron and Bald Eagle fishing habitat.I am going to City hall today to get a copy of the environmental checklist that is dated Jan 10th 2008!!!!I am a renton tax payer and feel that ALL Kennydale residents have the right to know what is going on, NOT just the well heeled ones!!!I have written to our new mayor requesting that he bring this issue up at the next KNA meeting on Jan 29th 2008.But i am not very hopeful as he is pro this heliport as are most of the City COuncil. My name is joanie Rosling and i live on N.34th st.Incidently, I can hear Charlie’s helicopter from inside my house when he’s coming and going.
Re: heliport
There are almost no conditions in the ordinance (only one helicopter, and follow FAA reg’s – which don’t really limit altitude or noise). Only an administrative approval will be required for the permit (no hearing examiner process). The staff report is weak – it only contains the info provided by Conner (e.g. Hunts Point and Redmond allow them, but no mention of all the other cities that forbid them or place conditions/restrictions if they do allow them). There should at least be a condition that forbids flying over Renton neighborhoods, and keeps the heliport operations over the lake. Issaquah has this condition – why not Renton?
heliport
I would like to thank our new mayor Denis Law for at least bringing up the Conner Heicopter Issue at the Kennydale Meeting on the 29th Jan.He also gave those in attendance the info on the Feb 19th 2008 hearing at city hall.Once again ,if you cannot attend as it is at 9am please send a note to Mr Kaufman with your concerns about this matter.This will be the ONLY opportunity to express your concerns !!!!! Joanie Rosling.a person of interest and one of those appealing the conditional use permit for this helicopter.
Re: heliport
How much more noise can Renton stand? Helicopters do not belong in residential areas.
I don’t understand how the well-healed are allowed to bother so many people. And then they get their friends or a charity organization to say what a great guy the noise-maker is and how it doesn’t bother them. GET REAL! People don’t have the right to damage others’ use and enjoyment of their property.
You might want to contact an attorney to give Mr. Connor a head’s up on nuisance law. Doesn’t Renton have a noise ordinance?
Re: heliport
I find it very odd or even a bit presumptuous, that Charlie would build a helipad (without telling Renton City I assume, since it didn’t seem to register during the permit process), and not understand that the local neighborhood may have issues with the operation of a helicopter even though the FAA approved his siting of the helipad. And now he wants Renton to reverse engineer their ordinances to fit into the pad that he has built and is still using. I doubt most people in our city would go to the extreme of quietly building something that will obviously be noticed by his neighbors knowing full well that it may cause negative ripples.
But I guess when you have been commended by the city for developing land (tax base cha-ching) you assume you are exempt from playing by the rules of non anointed citizens.