
The Vice-Presidential candidates had their much anticipated debate tonight. What did you all think?

The Vice-Presidential candidates had their much anticipated debate tonight. What did you all think?
Hi, I’m Randy Corman. Welcome to my blog! I served on Renton City Council for 28 years, 1994-2021, with six years as Renton Council President. I’m also a mechanical engineer and manager, and worked for the Boeing Company for 33 years, from 1984- 2017. My wife and I have five kids and six grandkids, and we all live in Renton. I’ve kept this blog for 19 years, and get thousands of readers each month. Please share your feedback, ideas, and opinions in the comments.
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News from former Councilmember Randy Corman, your Renton City Hall insider. (All views expressed in journal entries are Randy Corman's personal views, and not the official position of the City of Renton or other city employees. Views expressed in reader comments are those of the commenter)

1.) Palin made full sentences tonight.
2.) Biden made no gaffes.
3.) Palin was bitchy and manic.
4.)Biden was slow and stuttered.
Overall I was surprised she did way better than I expected. Biden held back he could had shredded her, but was a complete gentleman to hold off the “sexist” crap. It was close but Biden knew his stuff, and uncovered her/ and McCain lies. No game changers here, but Palin got some respect back after her eye opening interviews.
It’s a good thing you have such an open mind. TCC
Game changer…Palin did a great job of exposing Obama, by using his running mates own comments about Obama.
I also loved the part when she brought up Obama’s disrespectful words, of describing how US troops where bombing killing Afghan civilians.
What she did was not win over Obama disciples (those dewy eyed folks, and media commentators who get tingles up their legs when he speaks), but rather reinvigorate the base, and remind ordinary Americans how dangerous it would be to put a naïve character in power.
Randy- I know you pine for an Obama presidency, but I wonder if you have doubts about the attempts in Ohio by the Obama campaign to allow same day voter registration? The opportunity for election fraud is enormous, for both sides. I would want those who vote, to have at least some standard to vote, like being prepared, and some semblance of knowledge.
“Game changer?” Please. Perhaps *you’re* more excited about McCain-Palin than ever, but that’s not what the McCain camp needs right now. They need the support of mainstream undecided voters to derail Obama’s momentum, and this debate isn’t going to provide them with that.
since when
Kind of ironic to see these guys worrying about election fraud. Must be the small scale and lack of professionalism that got their attention.
“how dangerous it would be to put a naïve character in power”
That’s exactly why Palin is not an asset to the GOP. We’d be a slip in the bathtub away from having her as Prez.
Nice avatar…
You may be interested in how close the Republicans and Suffrage movement are:
http://us-parties.suite101.com/article.cfm/women_and_the_republican_party
We’re not 100% evil 😉
Re: Nice avatar…
Silly. I know that- I’m a history major:)Yet the Republican party today, in power don’t represent the Republican party that brought us these great things.
Most of my family is Republican or Independent. I’m the oddball..
Re: Nice avatar…
When you get tired over there, come back over and help us move the Republicans back to their principals 🙂
I’ll ramble on again…
Big losers: Gay people – Biden and Obama won’t stick up for you. McCain and Palin are at least honest about their stance.
….
Who had the most Botox: Biden
Who’s been cramming the most: Palin
Bad pronunciations: Nuculular and Bussshes
Best closing remarks: Biden
Best zingers: Palin
Smarter: Biden
Center of attention: McCain
Connects with people: Palin
Overcame expectations: Palin
Overcame anger: Biden
….
On an intellectual level, Biden won. On a gut level – and more importantly, on the level that will *sway* center voters – Palin won. Biden was doing a good job debating, Palin was doing a good job making small speeches.
I came away from the debate thinkig how perfectly McCain and Obama picked the running-mate that will give them their respective best chances at winning. Over the last few weeks, there’s been a lot of talk about how Palin may have been a bad choice – but the fact remains that McCain had to do something risky to even get noticed in the whole McCain = Bush onslaught.
Biden was perfect for Obama – it’s gave him a sense of legitimacy and he’s so bland that he’s not taking away any of the spotlight away him.
….
Palin is very polarizing – she is loathed by the internet-mouth-breathing classes, and adored by the far-right. The rest of us love the show and realize that this is Obama’s election to lose.
…..
Aside – I’ve noticed more Catholics abandoning the Democrats – Pope Benedict has really been stressing the culture of life from the top down and it’s really making a difference. I’ve noticed that there is such a thing as a Republican Reform Jew now days too….
I’m still up in the air about abortion: I’ve been thinking about the following slogan, “A break in the condom doesn’t mean that someone should lose their life.” I’m not onboard on legislating that mother need to carry their babies to term, but as genetic cloneing, augmentation, and prenatal gene splicing become possible – a culture of life will be necessary if we’re to be decent people in the future.
Re: I’ll ramble on again…
About the gay marriage thing…
Of course I’m disappointed that Joe Biden and Barack Obama can’t bring themselves to say they support gay marriage, because everyone knows they do. But, they strongly support equal rights and benefits for gay people under the law, and that’s what really matters in the end, not whether they use the term “civil unions” or “marriage.” Saying they support gay marriage could cost them the election, and that’s not a chance I’d want them to take. In an ideal world, they’d say “gay marriage” with pride, but as we well know, if there’s one hot-button topic that gets the religious zealouts out to vote and their 527s to run attack ads, it’s gay marriage.
In my estimation, the most important issues facing the LGBT community are the passage of the Federal Employment Non-discrimination Act, the abolition of the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy, and the repeal of the Federal Defense of Marriage Act. An Obama presidency and Democratic control of Congress will pretty much guarantee that those roadblocks to equality are removed. If gay marriages or civil unions are legal in other states (as they are in CA, MA, and VT right now), then the feds need to recognize them and provide access to all the Federal rights and benefits of marriage: social security, veteran’s benefits, immigration, and of course, taxation — to name a few. There is absolutely no legal or Constitutional reason why that shouldn’t be the case, since what constitutes a marriage has always been left up to the states. Hopefully, my marriage license from CA, despite its lack of status in WA, will someday be enough to allow my husband and I to file our taxes together, inherit property without penalty, and receive each other’s social security (50+ years from now, of course ).
Re: I’ll ramble on again…
I agree that there is not Constitutional reason for not letting gay people marry. They are just a deserving of Life, Liberty and, the Pursuit of Happiness after all. But this is not a Constitutional issue. Hear me out.
I was sitting at a table at school (Seattle University) next to some guy. Two of his friends walked up, one male the other female. They talked for a few seconds that the two new comers kissed and the girl left. The two guys were talking about and the only thing I heard was that the first guy said to the new comer “what, are you gay?” While kissing the girl might have been a rouse, I would assume that he was not gay.
Until people, mainly men, stop using the word gay as a derogatory word when directed at other men there will always be a social gap. Why do we, straight men, do this? I do not know. I have made a personal effort to not talk like that. However, gay personalities in the media and images seen on TV in things like the gay pride parade, portray gay men as less than masculine (the other guy from Will & Grace or the guy dressed up as the Chiquita Banana girl in the parade). I think that is where the problem comes from.
Either way, I think it’s a social issue where straight men can’t deal with two guys kissing, or a man dressing up like a woman or what ever. Until that is straighten out (no pun intended) there will not be equality.
Mark
Re: I’ll ramble on again…
Thanks for your perspective, Mark. There are definitely a lot of complex sociological issues related to how people view homosexuality, especially straight men. I remember reading about a study which measured the sexual responses of college-age men to various erotic images, and guess what? The guys who identified themselves as the least accepting of gay people were the most likely to become aroused by gay porn. D’oh! Of course, that doesn’t mean they were gay (since the spectrum of sexuality is full of shades of gray), but it does imply that their intolerance of homosexuality was perhaps driven by their own sexual insecurities.
The most resistance to gay rights, though, seems to come overwhelmingly from people with fundamentalist religious views, whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. There’s no easy way to bridge that divide, except for people on opposite sides of the issue — especially families and friends — to communicate openly and honestly. It’s clear that Sarah Palin, for instance, does not hate gay people or want to deny them basic human rights, despite being of a religious background that’s far from gay-friendly. From what I understand, though, she has a very close gay friend from high school, which might have a lot to do with her tolerance.
Re: I’ll ramble on again…
Also, the fervor of their hatred seems to be a measure of the likelihood that they will be caught up in a gay scandal, often as a leader in their church.
Re: I’ll ramble on again…
Uh…. “Don’t ask don’t tell” was created by the Democrats. I guess it’s their job to repeal it.
Where’s your sense of civil disobedience – don’t let them get a free pass just for expedience sake or you’ll just be at the back of the bus forever.
…
Can’t file jointly? That sucks and needs to be changed just so you suffer under the same “marriage penalty” that I do 🙂
The only logical position is that damn government needs to get out of the marrage business. I’m not sure it should be a ‘state right’ even – it should be a civil matter between two people and possibly their god(s).
Re: I’ll ramble on again…
I’m very familiar with the origins of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. It was a compromise bourn out of an sincere attempt by President Clinton to end the discrimination of gay men and lesbians in the military. Thanks to the likes of Sam Nunn and John McCain, the issue took on a life of its own, and with pressure from Republicans and more conservative members of his own party, Clinton was compelled to retreat from his original plan and create an awkward compromise. But the good news is that a stroke of a pen from President Obama (or McCain!) can reverse it, since it was only an Executive Order.
Later, in 1996, when the Defense of Marriage Act was passed overwhelmingly in the House and Senate on the eve of the presidential election, Clinton was under enormous political pressure to sign the bill. And he did. But, a spokeswoman for Hillary made a good point about DOMA:
“Sen. Clinton [then First Lady] backed the Defense of Marriage Act because it enabled us to fend off right wing attacks like the Federal Marriage Amendment by keeping marriage as the purview of the states. She believes DOMA served an important purpose in that respect. Marriage should be left up to the states.” http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0607/Hillary_repudiates_DOMA.html
Ironically, the author of DOMA, Libertarian Bob Barr, this year apologized for his role in creating the legislation and came out against a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.
Anyway, to answer your question about civil disobedience, trust me, I know how to pick my battles, and convincing people to use the words “gay” and “marriage” is not one I choose to fight. Others will, but I can best serve the interests of the LGBT community on a more local level, as those in Renton who know me can attest to. 🙂
Re: I’ll ramble on again…
>> Can’t file jointly? That sucks and needs to be changed just so you suffer under the same “marriage penalty” that I do 🙂
Actually, I make quite a bit more than my (not-legal-in-WA-State) husband, so we’d actually pay a lot less in taxes by filing jointly.
So, in the meantime, we’re paying more in Federal taxes, but we’re not capable of receiving each other’s Federal benefits. It’s easy to see why Bob Barr (a Libertarian) changed his mind about the Defense of Marriage Act.
Oh yeah…
Three cheers for the moderator!!!
She’s a partisan, so I respect her all the more that she played no favorites.
I’d like to see her moderate the presidential debates
Here’s my opnion, but it is no more important than anybody elses:
I thought they both did very well tonight. Palin did hold her own, and I think won back ground regarding her public speaking ability. Biden finally had his chance to get seen by everyone, as he has been overshadowed by the other personalities in this campaign; he seemed like a true statesmen, that greatly enhances the Democratic ticket.
This quote from a British website, the UK Times Online, maybe summarizes it best:
“Senator McCain probably lost his first debate against Sen Obama by not winning it.
On Thursday night Mrs Palin won her debate by not losing it. “
not much of a debate though
It was more like an interview with Biden interjected at regular intervals by Palin’s non sequitur sidebars directly to “Uh-meer-ick-cuhns”.
Joe Biden was incredibly authentic, composed, and knowledgeable. He did an amazing job of focusing his answers on McCain’s negatives, and he was just as down-to-earth as Sarah Palin was, but without the obligatory clichés (well, maybe just a few). He certainly didn’t make any significant mistakes, and he supported Obama’s positions brilliantly. If he’d been McCain’s running mate, Republicans wouldn’t have needed to spin his performance at all. It was brilliant.
Palin did just fine, and I’m glad, since I don’t wish her ill will or embarrassment. She had a really rough week, and she needed to redeem her image and her confidence tonight. She accomplished those goals. However, to say that she won over any fence-sitters is pretty unrealistic. She basically recited every talking point and folksy word she’d memorized (even when totally unrelated to the question), and forced out as many zingers as she could, which really weren’t very effective. It was all pretty transparent. I mean, we ALL know she didn’t know much about Middle Eastern politics 5 weeks ago, and now she’s trying to defend McCain’s positions on Iraq and Afghanistan, and remember the names of world leaders?
I think the analyses and polls in the coming days will support my view of this debate.
I’m just glad the whole VP sideshow has reached its zenith and that we’ll be back to focusing on Obama and McCain now.
It would really help if Palin used punctuation when she speaks — she sounds dumb when she’s just talking in an endless sentence with no distinct beginning and end and no emphasis on any particular words. How she made it through journalist school without mastering the soundbite I do not know.
wow, again….i was an idepenedent voter. I was VERY unsure of her and McCain after I saw those interviews. After tonight, I felt she has shown she is ready. I thought she was utterly amazing. Her quick wit got me to smile and left biden gasping for air. WOW. Icredible debate…palin won.
It’s totally fine that you think Palin was amazing, but to say that Biden was “gasping for air” shows that your reality is just a touch different than the rest of the world’s.
Elizabeth is right
I agree with Elizabeth below. The “debate” was so constrained by all the rules imposed by Palin’s handlers, it had no spontaneity. I also was thinking the same thing as Elizabeth about the TV persona Sarah Palin is so good at projecting.
I did not feel any confidence in her as a vice president, but I would sure hire her as a news anchor. If that rehearsed collection of non-responses is all we get, I’d just as soon vote for boring “Can I Call You Joe” Biden.
VP Debate
Interesting debate to watch, from a strategy aspect, but must admit I was left frustrated by questions not being answered. I wish the moderator would have been stronger in asking each candidate, when they strayed to other topics, to answer the question that was asked. On Tuesday, on CNN, a strategist for the Republicans was asked to give advice to Biden for the debate and the response was to be careful not to say or do anything that would come across like he was attacking a female e.g. not to physically approach her, not to sound like he was talking down to her by correcting her, etc. Biden seemed to follow that advice. Biden commented on U.S. General McKiernan’s comments that were widely reported in the press yesterday, saying the approach used in Iraq would not transfer over or work in Afghanistan due to the cultural and tribal differences. While more troops are needed there, the surge approach would not be effective. Biden used his title but not his name. In response, Palin kept referring to General McClellan (Civil War!) and that he’d not said the comments that he indeed had said. I was hoping Biden would set the record straight and correct the name, but he held back. A strategist for the Democrats (Paul Begala) had likewise been asked to give advice to Palin for the debate. Begala had advised that if Palin didn’t know the answer to a question that she should just talk about something else and change the subject. Palin definitely used that tactic a lot last night talking about things that were not related to the question and always coming back to specific talking points. Palin’s background as a sports anchor on KTUU in Anchorage paid off as she was very comfortable speaking to the camera, using the type of phrasing anchors use to lighten a broadcast, winking, and smiling. Biden and Palin both played to their strengths and used the strategies needed. But I was left wanting direct answers to the questions.
Elizabeth
Re: VP Debate
“Palin’s background as a sports anchor on KTUU in Anchorage paid off as she was very comfortable speaking to the camera, using the type of phrasing anchors use to lighten a broadcast, winking, and smiling.”
I was waiting for her to throw to a commercial or say “let’s check out the weather with Joe at the Doppler Radar Room”.
Re: VP Debate
Her whole performance was an infomercial. She’s just giving them True Believers what they wanted, gosh darn it! I’ve been known to put a dent in a six pack now and then, but I’m not falling for it. Plenty of us Alaskans know better.